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11:11 pm April 16, 2009 | wvanwazer
| | | | | New Member | posts 2 |
| | How much does everyone charge for advertising rates? Right now, we (the Tulane Hullabaloo) charge 5 dollars per 1000 impressions. Is this high? Low? We're in the process of setting our advertising rate for the next year, and I have no idea what a good price is. |
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8:09 pm April 17, 2009 | BradArendt
| | | | | Member | posts 7 |
| | Well, how to charge for rates varies. Basicly, there are two schools of thought. One is charging per 1000 impressions and the other is charging per month (or some other set time period). In general, I think for the long term per 1000 impression is the best way to go. Generally we have found this difficult to explain to local mom and pop stores so stick with the per month model. We do base our per month fee off an average per 1000 impression rate which I hope will be easy to transition to the impression model. As to your actual rate, $5 sounds pretty normal but again depends. What size ads are you selling? Where are on the page are you selling them? Those can all impact the value of the ad. I think you will find rates varying between $2 – $15 per thousand all depending on the size, position, website (college newspapers might be able to charge higher rates) as well as your local competitors impacting how much you can charge for online ads. |
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1:08 am April 18, 2009 | joey
| | Silicon Valley | | | Admin | posts 39 |
| | What a great question, you've hit home on a particular passion of mine, so get ready for a rather long winded answer. I'll try to keep my crazier ideas at the end. @BradArendt, you've hit 2/3 ways to pay for online ads: by impression and by month. The last, is by click. Of course, there are hybrids of all three models, which the top ad networks utilize (Facebook, Google). The issue, is that all of these models have some inherit flaw. CPM doesn't reward for the effectiveness of an ad, Cost per click doesn't has the same problem and doesn't necessarily reward high traffic, and charging for a time period has the same issues. Now, take into account that college media has a monopoly over the vast majority of the 18-24 year-old US population. That demographic should sound familiar to you as the most sought after by advertisers. Oh, and if my rough, non-scientific, survey is to be believed, less that one third of online college readership is actually students, it's parents and alumni, who represent a middle-class, educated, demographic – precisely what any good advertiser wants. Translation: you're serving ads to a very valuable audience. And, you've got a monopoly on your niche market. If these analytics are somewhat close to your internal numbers, than you're receiving roughly 3,500 pageviews/month on your site, which means that an advertiser can pay $20 to have access to your market for the whole month, and paying only $0.005 (half a cent) for each view of their ad. If you ask me, that's far too little, and not enough to support your organization. In recognition of the bad economy, I'd only double to $10 CPM, and plan to increase quality web content in part to justify the increase, and to prepare for a larger raise in the coming years. Geography Now, remember those awesome demographics that we talked about earlier? They do have a huge downside: they’re usually not geographically similar. That means that you’re local adverts may not be your best market for online ads. Take a look at your analytics, and I’m sure you’ll find that your pageviews mostly aren’t local. Try to serve ads that target all your audiences. Yes, an ad for a local pizza joint is good, but irrelevant if you don’t live near campus. Ads for Macy’s on the other hand, apply to everyone. Not to mention, national ads pay well. In the same vein, don’t forget that you’ll have a lot of alumni visiting the site. Go to your alumni office. Tell them that. They may not know. Alumni offices spend ridiculous amounts of money trying to contact alumni to get more money out of them. You can get a chunk of that money too! Make your case, and sell them a decent spot for a long-term contract. Then charge them a hefty amount – after-all, you’re a great way of reaching their market. Concerned about relevancy for students? Go to the career center, and have them team up with alumni office. There’s gotta be alumni who want to hire interns and grads. Crazy? I was Crazy Once! That said, let me present some crazier, more involved ideas. @BradArendt points out, there's a lot to be said for type inventory you have. One suggestion of Revenue Two Point Zero, was to limit your inventory, therefore decreasing supply. This will allow you to drive up costs. Another, was to sell only larger, more eye catching ads, this should help to avoid ad blindness which is a huge problem for online adverts. You might consider changing your inventory with those thoughts in mind. Currently, the Hullabaloo has 3 display ads on the site, one of which was Google AdWords. I'm sure you know that Google Ads, while convenient, don't have great revenue, and you'll make much more money from selling ads yourselves. Of course, that means having a motivated and trained online ad sales team. Who, since they're paid on commission, don't stand to gain much by selling online ads. Increase the cost of online ads, and you actually stand to sell more. …They Put Me in a Little White Room. OK, with me so far? Now let's get out-of-the-box: Institute a rule that 60% of your ads must be either a coupon, or a notification of a sale/deal (that's actually legit), with the intention of increasing this to 95%+ in the coming years. I base this off two facts: people describe online ads as annoying, and in my own observation, print ads, which are usually described as informative, are primarily coupons or notifications of sales. Of course, coupons are really the way to go. They will not only make your users happier, but they’ll drive traffic to your site and to your advertiser’s site and store. It’s a win all around. Now, how do you serve them? Offer some sort of hybrid: charge for a run time, but make a deal with your advertiser that if you get a spike in traffic, they’ll be charged for the additional views. It’s your market, control it. This clause will allow you to ensure that when high traffic comes, you’re not out of inventory. But… don’t be evil, if you’re advert wants to opt-out of the deal, then let them. With no hassle. Just be sure to sell enough ads to have an inventory ready if you do spike. Take all this as you will, I recognize I've gone beyond the scope of your question, so take from this what you will, but please do take my basic message to heart: your ad rates can be much higher. Don't be afraid to charge for what you're worth! | |
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1:56 am April 18, 2009 | Daniel Bachhuber
| | | | | Admin | posts 102 |
| | Brilliant, dude. You prompted me to think of something I hadn't considered before, and that thought lead to another very important thought. My three cents to the GM's trying to make money from online: value the platform. All too often I hear stories of papers that will only sell online advertising if the advertiser buys a print one first. That's telling your advertisers that online is worth less than print when, in fact, its worth more and its value is just extremely depressed. Second, hire staff that knows how to sell online ads. This is probably going to take significant re-education in the next year, but that can be a collaborative effort. | |
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10:32 am April 18, 2009 | MaxCutler
| | | | | Member | posts 10 |
| | Joey mentioned the problem of selling local ads when your audience can be geographically diverse. One option that we offer at the Yale Daily News is the ability for advertisers to get their ads served only to visitors coming from within the Yale network. We use Google Ad Manager, which lets us target ads by geography or network address, which makes it trivial for us to create ad packages that target different audiences. In this manner, you can serve an ad for the local pizza joint to all people coming from the school network or the city (New Haven, in our case), while serving an ad for the alumni center or national advertiser to everyone else. This not only increases your ad inventory, but allows you to raise the rates for those ads because they are more targeted. |
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5:20 pm April 18, 2009 | wvanwazer
| | | | | New Member | posts 2 |
| | We're kind of in an interesting situation–since we redeisgned the website, we have a bunch of people who called us wanting to advertise. Overall, I think like 10 or 15 companies. We charged 5 dollars per1000 on our old, relativley terrible site. Now that we have a new site, I'd like to charge more. Given the demand, I think doubling our rate is appropriate. (And I might think about eliminating in post advertisments–they just annoy everyone). However, one problem I'm having on the new site is correct analytics for ads. I (through a wordpress plugin) have Google Analytics set up for the site. I also use Google Ad Server. When I looked at the traffic data, it was about 1/4th of the traffic we were getting on the older and crappier site. Thinking this couldn't be possible, I tried using a set of analyitics that came with our hosting package, and we were getting significantly more hits. What is going on? Did I mess up the install of Analytics of Google As Server? I would like to believe we were getting good number the entire time and it just wasn't reporting, but could it be the other way around? Also, what are alternatives to Google Ad Server? I've heard of OpenX Ad Server, and almost installed it. Is it any good? |
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6:44 pm April 18, 2009 | BradArendt
| | | | | Member | posts 7 |
| | @joey makes a good point, the other method is click throughs. The issue with click throughs, in the past, has been two fold as well. First, and most important is having a good, autmatic method of tracking click throughs and pulling ads down once the limit is reached. Google has a done a great job internally and I've been looking at Google Ad Manager. I'm curious if Max can share how this has worked for him at Yale. The second problem with selling click throughs is figuring out a price to charge (mainly because Google can charge such a low price and many traditional sites don't charge per click so comparing local prices is difficult) and again getting your local business owner to understand the concept. I'm not saying this will be everyone's problem, just what I have experienced in our local market over the past 4-5 years. It is getting better and likely to change as more business owners become more net advertising savvy. As things change, per click might become the preferred way as it is more "direct" proof but it also discounts the value in brand awareness by just having your name seen (which charging by impression takes in to account). Neither, in my opinion, are perfect. Dan also brings up a good point: don't under value your online property. I have long implemented the policy of always charging for each ad. Even if you are giving a heavy discount because you are sponsoring or doing some trade, never value any of your ads at $0.00. Show the full price and then the discounted price. This takes some more work but helps to show the value of all your ad properties. |
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9:26 pm April 18, 2009 | MaxCutler
| | | | | Member | posts 10 |
| | @BradArendt: We do not use CPC for our ads, so I can't give any experiences in that regard. We started doing CPM with Google Ad Manager, and that was fine. We now use CPD (per day, although we run ads on a weekly rate), and that also works well. If you are interested in specifics, I can put you in touch with our online advertising manager, who actually manages and sells our online ads (I'm in charge of the website itself, not the ads). My biggest hesitation with doing CPC is that advertising is about more than simply click throughs. For alot of branding-based marketing campaigns, they simply want people to *see* their ad and become familiar with the name or raise its level in their consciousness. And then when that viewer needs/wants to do something related to that advertiser, hopefully the advertiser would be the first thing he/she thinks about. Also, doing CPC puts alot of pressure on you, because you are only getting paid for click throughs and not just impressions. If it is a poorly made ad, the click through rate may be abysmal, in which case you aren't going to make any money. Most advertisers should be comfortable enough with CPM or CPD, that CPC should be a last resort (or only available on-request). |
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11:46 am April 20, 2009 | bryan
| | | | | New Member | posts 1 |
| | Cost per clicks, as max points out, is a horrible idea for college media sites, akin to allowing advertisers to only pay for print ads per the number of coupons that are brought in from an ad. The fact is, it may be that nobody wants to buy the crap you're selling. Additionally, CPMs can be artifically inflated when you have sites that put slideshows across several pages, or breaks a story up into parts and makes each part a new pageload. Not saying that's not useful, but it can be done without separate pageloads. Coupons can be effective, but the price paid for the real estate should not be based on how many people decide to click on the ad. The real estate is the same whether someone clicks or not. And it's going to be interesting to see how this gets sold through mobile and e-mail blasts in the future (is anyone selling mobile ads yet?) One thing that's also not discussed so far that I've seen is the concept of "engagement" or time on site. If the average TOS on your site is high, I think you could justify charging higher prices for the ads placed on there. It would be interesting, although not technically doable with current technology (because so many visits only translate to a "0:00″ even though the reader actually spends more time on site, to charge by the amount of "time exposure" to viewers. So, for instance, an advertiser could buy 200 hours worth of time on a per-hour rate, assuming that the more time a viewer sees an ad, the more potential impact it has. Obviously, this could be gamed as well, but if you set ads to rotate out after so many minutes on one viewers screen, that could be alleviated. Of course, this would also require news sites to post more compelling web-based content and try to raise traffic online. For small-time local advertisers, I suppose the "psychology" of a per-week charge is most akin to the traditional print buy. I wish there was a way to adequately use a buffet-style approach where the advertiser could choose which would be of the most value to them, understanding that the costs would be basically the same across the choices. None of which addresses the ad "rate" issue itself. I'm assuming there's a range, but it's not a very big moneymaker for most. the truth is that for many college papers online, it's a guessing game. But that's no different than print ad rates. You try to find a cost that the market will bear. I do think colleges could charge more for their online ads, but also think they should spend more time *selling* online ads separate from print ads. A tough decision. |
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6:06 pm April 20, 2009 | joey
| | Silicon Valley | | | Admin | posts 39 |
| | @wvanwazer Your analytics problems could be many things. It's always possible the code isn't doing what it's supposed to do, a smaller chance that Google is screwing you, and a much higher chance that you're seeing something very typical of analytics suites – inaccuracy across the board. The arbitrary laws of the Internet gods have decreed that no analytics software can mach the results of another. I don't know why it's so darn hard to measure this stuff, but it's really, really annoying to know that all of these stats are really nothing more than rough guesses. Even seemingly simple stats like pageviews vary across the board. For instance, on my personal blog, I've got one article that Google claims has 723 hits but WordPress claims has 635. Go figure, right? @BradArdent you also make a good point in never devaluing your online ads. It's obvious that the web is the present/future, and obvious that we're going to have to make money online. Devaluing online ads now, is horrible for the long-term. | |
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11:57 am April 21, 2009 | aodell
| | | | | New Member | posts 1 |
| | I'm concerned that given the (relatively) small traffic most college sites get, the low barrier to entry online, the overabundance of online inventory among other issues that online advertising isn't really the best way to monetize our sites in the future. We're certainly not going to be able to generate (I don't believe) the kind of revenue we have in the past off our print editions in online. So, I'm curious what others think about other potential revenue generators for online. We're looking for new and supplemental ways to generate revenue online outside of advertising. Thoughts? Ideas? |
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5:06 pm April 22, 2009 | joey
| | Silicon Valley | | | Admin | posts 39 |
| | Oh heck yea. There are a lot of ways to monetize other than Ads. Everyone keeps looking for that 'magic bullet' solution to returning news to profitability. I strongly argue that there is no such switch we can flip. We've got to look for many revenue streams. Ideas that come to mind readily are: - Make classifieds an online-first experience. Housing guides, internship searches, etc… all that used to be the purview of newspapers, and fits handily with their place as The Site for the local community. There's a good something to be said for geographic niche dominance.
- Charge for connivence. You're not gonna be able to make money by charging for content. But charging for a good UX? Totally possible.
- Mobile is the future. I'm constantly impressed by how many college students (not to mention business people) live on their smartphones. Figure out a decent way to deliver content there, and you've got a real winner.
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5:18 pm May 4, 2009 | arobinsonwku
| | | | | Member | posts 32 |
| | Where is the limit with online advertising. A newspaper's primary product is still the print edition. I think we have to be careful to not cannibalize ourselves by putting so much emphasis on our online advertising that we lose print advertisers. For us at least our larger audience is with the print edition, and while we want an increase in online traffic we also want to keep the print medium our primary product. |
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8:12 pm May 4, 2009 | joey
| | Silicon Valley | | | Admin | posts 39 |
| | @arobinsonwku – Thanks for bringing this up. You've presented a common argument from many of the business side of college media. Let me see if I can help your worries. The argument has several essential flaws that show a fundamental misconception of how the internet works. - Online ads aren't less valuable than print ads. Oh sure, full page, full color ads offer something that a 468×60 banner just can't replace, but then, the interactivity of the web (which, has yet to be realized in online ads) can easily surpass the "wow" factor.
- The two aren’t mutually exclusive. Making money off your online product doesn’t come at the exclusion of print. As a matter of fact, the demographics for the two services are drastically different. Most of your online readership is parents and alumni, your print is mostly students. You can leverage that with different targeted advertising.
- Bring back classifieds. Online. Chances are really, really good, that your classifieds sales have gone down. Get ‘em back online. Online even opens up new possibilities: bar guides for mobile phones, using craigslist, using facebook data, just to name a few ideas.
Online advertising doesn’t work right now. They way to fix it: experiment. If you can accept that your future lies online (and if you don’t then we need to have a whole other conversation before we talk about monetization), then you can accept that we need to start moving to an online model. You’ll never have more revenue that you do right now. If you don’t take the plunge at some point, it’s just going to become harder and harder to do so. I’ve got a post on the CoPress blog with more: But We Make all of our Money From Newsprint | |
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2:48 pm May 11, 2009 | arobinsonwku
| | | | | Member | posts 32 |
| | @joeybaker: Good points Joey. We're also a bi-weekly publication, and we've always been that way. It wasn't a recent change because of the economy. Our online traffic is not very good at all, and that's why we're looking very hard at WordPress and will probably go that way. |
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7:25 pm June 9, 2009 | Chris Ullyott
| | Fullerton, CA | | | Member | posts 66 |
| | I'm hearing that Google Ad Manager works pretty well for everyone. Can anyone recommend a plugin? | |
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5:48 am December 8, 2009 | thewham
| | Boston | | | Member | posts 7 |
| | In terms of your ad sales, if you are running any program to pick up ads, then you should work on getting programs that have hybrid functions ( such as OIO Pub ) or use two different ad programs. Most advertisers will want just one thing, but you can make a specific ad page that if they are looking for multiple things, then you can showcase them some ways to advertise on your print/online content. If your are getting ads meeting businesses face-to-face, then try to offer them some imagination! If they want their business to be advertised to students, the business side has to come out beyond what another media outlet can get them. Try other campaigns that can be effective, lead to a bond, and/or even be easier than managing their ads. One example I worked on, was that I gave a business 20% of my website blog if they can show me a student group they donated to, as well as some content on why they donated to the group. The ad got placed, the owner got some pub, and the student group was happy we put something out for them. I think on the business end, if you want to make money, you got to get the advertiser involved more. Even if they don't want to, if you show that the student newspaper cares, even if they don't use you, they know you offer something different. In terms of rates, spend time working on simple campaigns in combination with ad rates. Someone will know that your paper is doing more, and they will pay more. I have also learned that very few people, are really knowledgeable about advertising/publicity. I am not proposing that you make campaigns and rates out of thin air, but you can set good rates if you show that you are working on their behalf. | Marquis Hunt *** The Wham ***" Liz: I got rid of all my Colin Firth movies in case they consider them erotica. ****
Jack: That man can wear a sweater. "-30 Rock |
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